Solar Return of composites

[lucina]

i was getting intrigued with this idea on the other thread, but wanted to create an own one for this to not muddle the DRaconic composite thread too much. 
Just wondering if these are telling or descriptive. 

the method of calculating I used: 
1. Casted a Solar Return for each person and saved it
2. made a composite of both solar returns. 


So I did one for the year, that I decided to never see P again and disappear from his life (he sort of did something to remind me of that timeframe, well he has been doing several things to remind me of that year. lol) 
I stayed away for most of the year, but eventually shortly before our next Solar return returned. Well showed up again. it is not comparable to the way we are interacting now. lol 


But anyway this was the Solar return for the year that I tried to erase myself from his life and vice versa. I must add however that at the end of that "hiatus" things on an emotional level changed very much (or I got a bit more clarity), and at the end of it I also had decided to change my life, and his life had changed as well. Unfortunately I was not comprehending the inner workings of what was going on, really. It took some more years for me to get to that point. 





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I think you can easily see the New-beginning theme with the IC on 00 Aries, and the shock and upheaval there with Uranus, but eventually pushing the whole connection into change. 

Two configurations stand out especially to me, two T-squares

Saturn - Jupiter - Venus
Moon - Uranus - Pluto

The first T-square might have affected him in particular, as SR Venus was conjunct his natal Venus on 25°55 Cap and opposing his natal Juno on 27 Cancer, and of course SR Saturn was exactly square. my natal uranus was opposing the SR Jupiter, which fell onto our basic composite Chiron-Atropos-conjunction in 3rd house. Well I suppose in this instance having Jupiter directing attention there might have not been a grand idea. 


The second T-square affected me more, as Moon was conjunct my natal MC exactly and Pluto exactly on my natal Venus. 

Interesting how both major configurations fell onto each natal Venus respectively. 


The tightest aspects in this Solar Return as standalone chart were: 

Uranus conjunct IC 0°06
Venus square Saturn 0°10
Moon sextile Mercury 0°14
Sun sextile Saturn 0°53
Moon square Pluto 1°08


I guess the Uranus on IC and Venus-Saturn dominated pretty much everything, esp. with Uranus-IC on the AP, and Venus-Saturn interacting with his chart (he was of course having Tr Saturn squaring his n Venus on and off for the whole year following)


Interestingly there were not that many overlays with the natal composite, just

SR NN on c-Neptune exact and c-Mercuyr by 3 degrees
SR Jupiter on c-Chiron exact



Interestingly when I had my illumination-moment at the end of the year, it happened with Tr Sun on 10 Sagittarius (on my own natal Neptune-NN and his MErcury), pretty much on the midpoint of this Solar Return`s ASC/Mercury-NN, and actually exactly opposing our c-Jupiter. 

The first return or reappearance on my behalf that year happened with Tr Sun exactly conjunct c-Saturn in 7th house btw. And this was pretty much the result of something he did, a few months prior, and that I was getting notice of around that time. 
(at the time he did that, Tr Sun was on 21 Cancer, exactly on my Vertex and Sun/Moon-mp, squaring his Pluto, and also squaring our composite nodal axis, opposing composite Moon and conjunct SR Vertex by 3 degrees)


Well I suppose it is worth keeping an eye on Tr Sun as a trigger.  

Well I`d say it was quite fitting. How about your Solar Returns? 

[lucina]

BTW StarVega

I looked up the day and alignment he posted the song again this year. (you know what I am talking about I hope). 

This time he did so with Tr Sun and Tr Mercury in exact conjunction on 3 Virgo, not only conjunct his own NN on 1 Virgo, but our current Solar Return`s DESC on 4 Virgo and SR NN on  5 Virgo.

(when he posted it the first time around, it was with Tr Sun squaring the composite Nodes, and when he first performed it live, pretty much exactly to the day of our first meeting, just some years later, he did so with Tr Sun on that year`s Solar return DESC exactly, opposing the Mercury on the ASC - seriously, he first published it with tr Sun on SR DESC and NOW re-published it with Tr Sun on SR DESC again?? That is almost a bit creepy, right? )


Maybe I should watch when Tr Sun is going to be conjunct, opposite or square the Nodes or DESC of our next year`s Solar Return? lol


Well next year`s SR NN will be on 15°57 Leo and SR DESC on 15°08 Capricorn. 


Anyway don`t laugh, but curiously I am most likely going to see him the next time when Tr Sun will be on 3-4 Sagittarius, exactly squaring the SR DESC. lol 
Of course I`ve also seen him without that occurrence happening. For example last time there was also an exact transiting Sun-Mercury-conjunction but it was not aspecting DESC nor nodes; instead it was exactly conjunct composite Pluto (which is in a wide 5 degree conjunction with the NN. lol), and squared the SR Mercury-Pluto on natal composite Venus. I suppose not even my natal Saturn on 17 Cancer could prevent the realization-process from happening this time. lol

[StarVega]

Nice research! I was making the SR draconic composite differently, just figuring out when the transiting draconic sun was exactly conjunct our draconic composite sun. For tropical, I'd see when the sun was transiting conjunct our composite sun.

It hadn't occurred to me to use SR charts as birth charts and make a composite of that.

0° Aries IC-Uranus, wow, that matches the time so well!

"Interesting how both major configurations fell onto each natal Venus respectively."

Yes....and you each had some of this in your individual SRs, so you were playing this out synastrically as well, right? I mean for him it was a Venus-Venus year and for you it was a Venus-Pluto year. I walked away from someone I loved with tr Pluto on my Venus in the SR as well.

"seriously, he first published it with tr Sun on SR DESC and NOW re-published it with Tr Sun on SR DESC again?? That is almost a bit creepy, right?"

I'm used to astrology and life being like that -> creepy.

"Maybe I should watch when Tr Sun is going to be conjunct, opposite or square the Nodes or DESC of our next year`s Solar Return? lol"

Nodes are a big deal, no doubt in my mind about that...still trying to catch up with you on this whole method, though.

[sven555]

I am not really sure what I need to look out for, but I have the following:

• Composite chart of our natal charts.
• Composite chart of our solar return charts for 2018.
• Composite chart of our solar return charts for 2017.

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Composite chart of our natal charts.

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Composite chart of our solar return charts for 2018.

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Composite chart of our solar return charts for 2017.

[lucina]

StarVega

"For tropical, I'd see when the sun was transiting conjunct our composite sun. "
Initially I did so, too, but the thing is both methods deliver different results.
At least in the terms of the angles.

It`s actually vastly different.

however, composites are created by using the midpoints between two charts.
So shouldn´t the Solar Return composite ASC also be the result of the midpoint between the two respective midpoints of Solar Return ASC in each chart?
Well for me and P it is actually very obvious as our Solar Return ASC`s for some reason seem to never differ more than about 5-7 degrees, and will be even closer next year.

Next year his SR ASC Will be on 17 Cancer, while mine will be on 13 Cancer.

So if making a composite Solar Return, how could the ASC really be on 10 Sag?
Besides what birthplace would we pick for this? (well we could pick the usual meeting place of course)

It`s probably a theoretical question:
Do we treat the composite as stand alone chart`? DESPITE its basic calculation as a midpoint chart?


Interpretatively it does make sense using the time of transiting Sun to composite sun, I am just not sure it is a valid approach.
I mean the composite is an artificial product, it cannot be directed or progressed, as it does not have a birthdate, really.
The way the progressed composite is calculated is simply taking both individual progressed chart, and make a composite/ midpoint-chart of these. There is no other way possible to progress a composite as it does not have a starting date.

Well I don´t know.


I do like the idea of using Tr Sun to the composite Sun exactly though, as this is how the Solar Return is defined. so maybe it is a valid approach, and just differs from the calculation for progressions in this case.



As for the year I meantioned, just making the Solar return for the Tr Sun exact on composite Sun, gives an ASC of 24 Gemini, putting Sun on the DESC, which makes actually a lot of ssense (I returned when my pr Moon was on 24 or 25 Gemini opposing my natal Sun, and here on the SR ASC).

Also makes sense in terms of the midpoints involving the angles I think, with all the erraticness of that year.


Sun = Uranus/MC (To become enraged. unrest. easily angered )
Venus = Neptune/ASc (To be deceived in love. painful experiences in love. Renunciation. - Yeah, just sugarcoat it. lol- )
Saturn = Neptune/ASC (To be defrauded by others. Damages or obstacles through the refusal of others. pull back. feeling out of the group. slow progress through the martyring of earlier ideas. emotional suffering caused through others.)

ASC = Mars/Uranus (To be connected with sudden events. upsetting event. To rebel together or against others, or others rebel against the native.)
MC = Mars/Uranus ("putting a gun to someone`s head"; the sense of "either/Or". taking drastic measures).


And the tightest midpoints of this year

Venus = Sun/Neptune 0°00 (Overly sensitive in love-affairs. Love without prospects. Unhappy love of a man. Coolness in expressing affection.)
Pluto = Mars/saturn 0°04 (interruption of a development. To quit one of several activities. Inception of a later separation or interruption of an activity.- yeah you can say that! lol) also (the need to take control; forcing an issue; strong anger)
Uranus = Pluto / ASC 0°05 (frequent change of environment, the misfortune to live in constant anxiety and restlessness)

also since Venus and SAturn were connected

Saturn = Sun/Neptune 0°10 (Lingering maladies. Losses through deceit or weakness. emotional struggle or pain. Bereavement about separation.)

Yeah it was not a very good year. lol


So I guess I might check it the way you did, despite my reservations, well it does fit th definition of what a Solar Return is after all!



"0° Aries IC-Uranus, wow, that matches the time so well!"
Using your method, this wouldn`t be there anymore though.


"I walked away from someone I loved with tr Pluto on my Venus in the SR as well."
Yes, well in our case I wonder though, why is it always coming back? the connection I mean? I`ve been walking out of it more often than I can count, though each time I returned it seemed that the connection had grown closer for some reason, in the first years I´ve hardly seen him once or twice a year, and now look at how interconnected everything seems to have become?

Well I eventually decided (maybe about a year ago and a half), that I simply give up trying to walk away. I`ll end up being there again anyway.
Be it that I do it on my own will, or we just coincidentially show up at the same spots, or well, I am pulled along by friends.
I figured it`s easier to just let it flow naturally and if it should flow out of my life then so be it, but apparently I (or my Ego) don`t have much say in this matter. lol


"Nodes are a big deal, no doubt in my mind about that...still trying to catch up with you on this whole method, though."
Yeah, I am confused now. lol


Well using your method our ongoing Solar REturn has

SR ASC on 10 Virgo and Neptune on 9 Pisces on the DESC, and SR NN on 6 Virgo near the ASC.
HOw funny to see that, as his personal SR had SR ASC on 9 Pisces, and that is the exact degree of my nameasteroid in his natal chart.

and of course the axis 10 Virgo-Pisces emphasizes his Mars-Jupiter on 10-11 Virgo and my Ceres-Jupiter on 9-11 Pisces.
It fits pretty amazingly.


Using this the tightest midpoints this year are/ were

Pluto = Moon/MC 0°02 (tremendous thrust forwards, usually accompanied by intense emtoion; the biggest picture, rejuvenationChanges in public that impress the mind. Changes that relate the native to the public in a personal manner. emotional shock. A strange soul life.)
Moon = Jupiter/Saturn 0°04 (emotional conviction; hypersensitive about ones position.changing relationships with a woman)
Venus = Pluto / Node 0°09 (important love contact; possibly tragic melodrama. an unusual attraction; tragic love. - yeah they could cut the dramatics a little. lol)
Saturn = Sun/MC 0°09 (maturation through sobering experiences; learning from apparent mistakes; the necessity to make grave or difficult decisions).





BTW I read in Blashke`s book yesterday that he found that usually there are exact synastric conjunctions to the natal of people we are dealing with in important ways the coming year (esp. present at the start of a relationship). I haven`t yet checked this.

Well in our case Sun will ALWAYS be conjunct each other`s Solar Return Sun. lol (maybe another reason why the Sun-Sun-aspects are not as unimportant as lately astrologers want to make us believe? )

[lucina]

I think I will use the easy method for now and see what comes up, meaning the one StarVega described.

[StarVega]

sven555

Which method did you use for those SRs?

I love the yods in this year's composite.

- Scorpio Moon at the top of the chart, apex with Venus and Mars at the base. Perfect for merging romance and friendship, emotional honesty.
- Libra Jupiter, apex with Neptune and Mercury, building a happy relationship on a foundation of spiritually compatible communication.

Next year's Pisces moon (chart ruler) conjunct Neptune in the 10th, with the sun in the 12th, I wonder what this is indicating? Neptune trine 5H Jupiter, I wonder if you could convert good times to profits.

[lucina]

I agree, Moon on the Venus/Mars-mp, seems to be very romantic and passionate.


BTW sven555 and StarVega ,

did your Solar Returns show exact conjunctions (or oppositions) from your Solar Return chart to each other`s natal chart? (well I`d possibly extend that to 1,5-2 degrees).

[StarVega]

lucina

"however, composites are created by using the midpoints between two charts.
So shouldn´t the Solar Return composite ASC also be the result of the midpoint between the two respective midpoints of Solar Return ASC in each chart?"

Yes...your method makes more sense, to claim the title of Solar Return Composite, but there could be a place for my approach, maybe we'll call that the Composite's Solar Return.

That's not confusing at all, is it? LOL

"Do we treat the composite as stand alone chart`? DESPITE its basic calculation as a midpoint chart?
Interpretatively it does make sense using the time of transiting Sun to composite sun, I am just not sure it is a valid approach."

I'm okay with invalid approaches in my non-professional life....the poetic approach jives with my Pisces moon...just meditating with numbers, moving collage pieces around. But I can see how your Aqua moon can't get into this. hehehe

Composite's just a midpoint chart, right. The sun at least maintains its importance, as it remains in the same position whether it's an SR composite or Composite SR. And I do like to consider what was going on around that sun, on that special day: how was the sun aspected? This year there was a new moon on my composite sun with my husband, opposing Uranus. New phase for us?

But we could just consider that as "transits to the composite" and leave the whole idea of solar returns out of it, really.

"I do like the idea of using Tr Sun to the composite Sun exactly though, as this is how the Solar Return is defined. so maybe it is a valid approach, and just differs from the calculation for progressions in this case."

Oh yes, just as you say here.

"So I guess I might check it the way you did, despite my reservations, well it does fit th definition of what a Solar Return is after all!"

Yeah, maybe just consider it a more in-depth consideration of the transits to the composite, in honor of the importance of a solar return to the composite sun.

"I figured it`s easier to just let it flow naturally and if it should flow out of my life then so be it, but apparently I (or my Ego) don`t have much say in this matter. lol"

In my opinion that's the way love always is, or at least Plutonian handcuffs that find their way onto your wrists. Well it's something beyond ourselves. That's why we can't shake it, it's not in us. I think in truth we can blend with people.........

Though my progressed Venus-Saturn opposition wants me to shut up about all that.

"Venus = Pluto / Node 0°09 (important love contact; possibly tragic melodrama. an unusual attraction; tragic love. - yeah they could cut the dramatics a little. lol)"

Your Aqua moon wants them to shut up about that, too.

"BTW I read in Blashke`s book yesterday that he found that usually there are exact synastric conjunctions to the natal of people we are dealing with in important ways the coming year (esp. present at the start of a relationship)."

Our SR to their natal? I'll be looking at that, maybe we can start another thread. 

For me, progressions are uncanny in highlighting who I'll be talking to in any given year. My progressed moon's heading into Libra and I'm scanning the horizon for Libras now.

[StarVega]

Oct 24, 2017 17:55:44 GMT lucina said:

BTW sven555 and StarVega ,

did your Solar Returns show exact conjunctions (or oppositions) from your Solar Return chart to each other`s natal chart? (well I`d possibly extend that to 1,5-2 degrees).

Sven and I? The King and I? 

It's a little odd that we started talking more this year, when we've been in each other's vicinity for several years. My SR doesn't aspect his chart much, not that I know of........my progressed moon was conjunct his moon, though.

My SR, 2017: 

[lucina]

Oct 24, 2017 18:19:25 GMT StarVega said:

For me, progressions are uncanny in highlighting who I'll be talking to in any given year. My progressed moon's heading into Libra and I'm scanning the horizon for Libras now.

my pr Moon is still in Virgo, mid Virgo at the moment. So it had been transiting P`s NN (1 degree), Jupiter (10 degrees), Mars(11 degrees) pr Mars (14 degrees), where it is now I think. 

yes today my pr Moon 14°44 Virgo
his pr Mars 14°41 Virgo (retro)

Wow that is close!


And from there there will a bit of an empty phase until it will start to transit his DESC, Saturn, Vertex (25-28 Virgo). 
And for him the pr Moon is at the end of Taurus (exactly opposite his wife`s n Saturn btw, which I found interesting, as when they got together his pMoon was trine her Saturn) and once passing into GEmini, will start opposing my natal Sag-planets starting with Mars next may. 

He`s also going to have pMoon on pDESC next summer, on 7 Gemini. 
In spring 2013, he was having pMoon on nASC (26 Pisces). 

there seems to be some mirroring of these timeframes going on for him. 


But anyway I did notice that his friend M and Lancelot M (too many M`s. lol) both have a Virgo-Moon. Lancelot actually has pr Moon in Aquarius, that must be hovering over my natal Moon, depending on his birthtime. 

My aquaintance I, is a Virgo, too, she shares her birthday with R, a good friend of P and well I pretty much interacted with her directly for the first time this summer, too. So yes, to the pr Moons. lol 

[lucina]

StarVega

not necessarily Sven and you, but possibly your hubby and you when you met? And Sven and his significant other? Or other significant meetings? Well so that would count, too, Sven and you I mean.


I only had a quick look at the time I first met P, and from my SR to his natal:

SR ASC conjunct his Mercury exact (and also falling exactly onto first meeting ASC, and my Neptune-NN)
SR Mercury conjunct his Sun exact
SR Pluto conjunct his Moon-MC exact
SR Jupiter conjunct his Moon-MC with 1,5 degrees
SR NN conjunct his SN exact
SR Saturn conjunct his Jupiter with 1,5 degrees


from his perspective it is not so exciting. lol well was to be expected I guess.

SR Moon conjunct my Chiron exact
SR Mars opposite my Venus with 1,5 degrees
SR true Node conjunct my LIlith with 1,5 degrees (actually interestingly he was having an exact Lilith-ASC conjunction in SR, and our first meeting chart`s Lilith fell exactly onto that. lol)

[sven555]

Oct 24, 2017 17:46:59 GMT StarVega said:

sven555

Which method did you use for those SRs?

I love the yods in this year's composite.

- Scorpio Moon at the top of the chart, apex with Venus and Mars at the base. Perfect for merging romance and friendship, emotional honesty.
- Libra Jupiter, apex with Neptune and Mercury, building a happy relationship on a foundation of spiritually compatible communication.

Next year's Pisces moon (chart ruler) conjunct Neptune in the 10th, with the sun in the 12th, I wonder what this is indicating? Neptune trine 5H Jupiter, I wonder if you could convert good times to profits.

I simply, 

• Cast a solar return chart of a given person, for a given year.
• Make a note of the time, date and location.
• Repeat for the 2nd person. (So you have 2 sets of time, date and location)
• Create two more people profiles, with your new data.
• Make a composite chart using these new profiles.

Since I met SO in 2016, perhaps that chart would show a union of us? We met and got together in the 2017 SR chart, and 2018? Well I have no idea

[StarVega]

Thanks sven555! What did your SR composite look like in 2016?

lucina,

"not necessarily Sven and you, but possibly your hubby and you when you met? And Sven and his significant other? Or other significant meetings?"

Okay, that's what I thought you meant, your phrasing just left me scratching my head. Friendships do take shape according to the orchestration of the cosmos but that was just a little out of the blue.

Thanks for your data, SR NN conjunct his SN exact looks the most fated to me....I hold the nodes in such high esteem.

My husband's SR for the year we met:

- Cancer Venus-Mars opposing my sun
- Pluto on my Venus
- Moon on my Uranus....and we got together when the sun was transiting there. On today's date, actually!

My SR:

- Uranus exactly opposing his sun-Uranus (involving my ASC-DSC axis if my chart is right)
- Scorpio Chiron-ASC on his NN, within 1°....Pluto, chart ruler, in partile conjunction with my Venus, trine his sun-Uranus
- Sag Mercury, Aqua Jupiter, and Aries moon forming a kite with his Leo Mars
- Venus-Neptune opposing my Saturn. Yep, believing in the dream no matter what Saturn would say!

[lucina]

StarVega

".I hold the nodes in such high esteem.
"
Yes, me, too. 

Actually when we first met, it also means that my SR NN was on his Priapus and Eros/Psyche-mp (as they are all on his South Node), and that was also interesting,b ecause our natal Psyche-Psyche-conjunction (1 degree orb) is walking in step in the progression, and around that time had come into orb for being conjunct his natal Eros and my name in his chart. 
my transiting name was falling onto that as well, and being exact square his transiting name on my DESC, opposing the midpoint of our names in his natal chart, which fell onto the same degree as his Mercury, my Neptune-Node and first meetings ASC. 
And of course onto the ASC of my Solar Return. 

Feeling dizzy already? lol 


Interestingly this year Lancelot`s pr Eros was separating from my natal Psyche about 1,5 degrees, which means they must have been conjunct somewhen before. 
Actually it`s an extremely slow progression. When I first saw him, incidentally on a Halloween concert, too. lol - but already 7 years ago, it just had started conjuncting my n Psyche by 1 degree. By the time I saw him again, some years later, and this time as Lancelot, the conjunction had been separating already by 20 minutes, but still well within orb. Almost funny coincidence. 





"- Cancer Venus-Mars opposing my sun

- Pluto on my Venus
"
Looking very romantic and passionate. 
BTW when I me P, I had SR Mars opposing my Venus, but not in any aspect to his natal chart (well we didn`t get together,. lol)
Of course it means that his SR Mars was actually opposing my natal Venus; maybe he wouldn`t have been too disinclined, if I had not disappeared. 
I think my pr ASC was hovering around my n Venus back then as well. Still 1,5 degrees off it, but the SR Mars was on my pr DESC - and I did meet a man, didn`t I? Maybe the progressed chart in relation to the solar return also can be telling? though just temporarily of course. 


"- Moon on my Uranus....and we got together when the sun was transiting there. On today's date, actually!
"
Congratulations! How long have you been together now? 
The transiting Sun could be a trigger for the Solar Return, I think Celeste Teal said that (and tr Mars as well), I have not yet researched that, but it fits your example. 




My SR:



- Uranus exactly opposing his sun-Uranus (involving my ASC-DSC axis if my chart is right)

That is what I wanted to ask btw, if the ruler of your horizon was involved, either of the natal or solar Return chart (it is something blashke mentioned, too). 
And your chart IS right. 




- Scorpio Chiron-ASC on his NN, within 1°....Pluto, chart ruler, in partile conjunction with my Venus, trine his sun-Uranus

Phew, so much fatedness; how did you experience the Chiron? 

Also SR ASC to Venus (just as Sun to Venus or possibly Moon or Mars to Venus even? not sure about that) definitely are possible romance years. 

I was checking M`s Solar Return for the year their relationship started, well her birthtime is unknown but most planets in the solar return are just moving at most one degree, except Moon and the angles of course. 

However using my suspected birthtime for her she was having: 

Uranus 8°29 Aries
Sun 8°33 Aries
Venus 8°38 Aries

Honestly, I have never seen anything like that in a Solar Return before! 

WEll additionally that SR showed 

Psyche on 25°35 Scorpio trine Eros on 25°09 Pisces (conjunct his n ASC And pr Moon)


Mars on 13 Aries was widely conjunct the Sun-Venus-Uranus-combo as well, as if that was even needed with that stellium!


Two Yods. 
Jupiter on 11 Gemini sextile Sun-Venus-Uranus-Mars from 8-13 Aries quinkunx Saturn 10 Scorpio

Saturn on 10 Scorpio sextile Pluto on 11 Cap quinkunx Jupiter on 11 Gemini

SR NN on 17 Scorpio on her natal SN


there were also some odditiies like 

Mercury conjunct Chiron on 10-11 PIsces, opposing his natal Mars-Jupiter
and squaring Jupiter on 11 Gemini opposing his natal Mercury (well that is actually a nice one)

Pluto on 11 Cap square Sun-Venus-Uranus on 8 Aries and Mars on 13 Aries, well actually a midpoint configuration and esp. Pluto to Venus/Mars, well I don`t have to really elaborate on this, right? 


Coincidentally I saw him a week before this Solar Return took place. lol Maybe I should have actually talked to him.  



#but no matter what her Solar Return really seems to have screamed for a relationship. lol 
I wish my Solar Returns were ever that simple and plain to interprete! 







"- Venus-Neptune opposing my Saturn. Yep, believing in the dream no matter what Saturn would say!"That is intersting. It made your connection tangible, the dream the romance, however did you try to reason your way out of it and he had to convince you?