Draco to Natal & Draco to Draco Synastry

[pufferfishy]

Hello!

The way Draconics are interwoven with our (and other people's) natals is really fascinating. A lot of important *themes* emerge if we look at these along with our natal synastry. I, for one, don't think they're obscure and hardly felt. It's like uncovering hidden layers of synastry, wherein a lot of our motivations and actions / reactions become clearer if we look at the full picture. For instance, what natal planet is pulling what draco planet out? Or vice-versa.

Also, there aren't clear-cut descriptions for these available, so please feel free to add your own comments about individual aspects, if any. So far, I've interpreted them as similar to the corresponding natal aspect - with the caveat that, depending on the person, it might be felt very prominently *or* as an undercurrent rather than a full-blown aspect of that nature. That part remains fuzzy to me - let me know how they play out for you!

Draco-Draco is another interesting layer, however it might remain in the shadows if no ties to the natal are present. If there are ties to the natal, then you feel bonded at a very deep, almost inexplicable level. 

I've come around to the view that, to feel connected in a *complete* way, we need to have (synastry) links to each other in all three layers.. 

At the moment, I don't have charts up for these comparisons, but if you do - please feel free to post.

I'll be back later, with some charts to discuss... 

[sven555]

Natal Chart -> Mind and Body.

Draconic Chart -> Soul.

[lucina]

Jun 2, 2017 15:45:54 GMT pufferfishy said:

Draco-Draco is another interesting layer, however it might remain in the shadows if no ties to the natal are present. If there are ties to the natal, then you feel bonded at a very deep, almost inexplicable level. 

I agree with all of what you wrote, but expectially this here. It`s interesting to check WHAT the channel (tropical planet) is for the Draco planets into every day reality. 

[StarVega]

pufferfishy

Good timing Transiting draconic sun @ 15 Cap as I write this...so, highlighting your natal and draconic as well.

"Draco-Draco is another interesting layer, however it might remain in the shadows if no ties to the natal are present."

Yes, that's the prevailing idea....I think shadows can be interesting, though...I have found so many intriguing shadows over time.

I love this topic and can't wait to see your examples.

[lucina]

indulging in my narcissm.  




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[pufferfishy]

Aaargh..so much to do here! Thanks you guys, for replying.. I'll be back later to respond more fully.

[pufferfishy]

Jun 3, 2017 15:01:24 GMT lucina said:

I agree with all of what you wrote, but expectially this here. It`s interesting to check WHAT the channel (tropical planet) is for the Draco planets into every day reality. 

Right - and I would like your opinions on the differences! 

[pufferfishy]

Okay, here goes study #1 - Paul Newman & Joanne Woodward. Coz that's the best place to start, right?


Part 1. Paul's Draco to Joanne's natal:
Paul's Draconic Chart:


Joanne's Natal Chart:


Aspects :
His Dr Venus/Merc conjunct her nNeptune
His Dr Pluto conjunct her nMoon
His Dr Moon trine her nMars
His Dr Jupiter opp her nMoon
His Dr Mars square her nSun/Venus
His Dr Mars opp her nJupiter


ETA: I should probably make these charts smaller. 

[lucina]

I am taking a different route than we normally do, and will post the synastry of a relationship that gloriously failed, many reasons, but when it comes down to it, I think the real reason was the absolute incompatibility of both people and especially HIS warped perception of "reality".


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Isn`t that crazy???

I mean the Draco charts obviously, with the exact ASC-DESC-overlay, and the Sun-Sun-conjunction and some more. Still gigantic fail!


Well my friend picked a man instead whom she shares the ASC-DESC-conjunction with in tropical, adding his Sun to her DESC as well.
And maybe most interestingly his tropical Moon falling onto her Draco Sun (my tropical Moon is in orb as well).

[lucina]

What I see in terms of Draco- tropical:

her Dr ASC: nothing (well I never even realized her Draco ASC is exact on my tropical ASC. Wow!)
her Dr MC: nothing
her Dr Sun: nothing
her Dr Moon: conjunct his tropical Vesta exact (11 Virgo)
her Dr Mercury: opposite his tropical Sun
her Dr Venus: nothing
her Dr Mars: nothing
her Dr Jupiter: conjunct his tropical MC exact (26 Libra) and Ceres
her Dr Saturn: conjunct his tropical Moon
her Dr Neptune: conjunct his tropical Chiron and opposite his tropical Uranus
her Dr Vertex conjunct his tropical MC and Ceres
her Dr Priapus opp. his tropical Vesta
her Dr Eros conjunct his tropical ASC (and Eros widely)
her Dr Amor opposite his tropical Chiron exact (and conjunct his tropical Uranus somewhat)

so leaving out the asteroids, in terms of planetary overlays
Dr Mercury opposite Sun
Dr Jupiter and Dr Vertex conjunct MC
Dr Saturn conjunct Moon




from his perspective:


his Dr IC conjunct her tropical Mercury, Venus, Mars, Pluto, Juno
his Dr Sun opposite her tropical Saturn widely
his Dr Mercury conjunct her tropical MC
his Dr Venus conjunct her tropical ASC (and Vesta=
his Dr Mars conjunct her tropical Neptune
his Dr Jupiter conjunct her tropical Neptune
his Dr Neptune conjunct her tropical Avx
his Dr Chiron opposite her tropical Moon widely
hsi Dr Ceres opposite her tropical Mercury-Juno
his Dr Juno conjunct her tropical Chiron and opposite her Uranus
his Dr Lilith conjunct her tropical vertes


so in terms of planetary aspects only
Dr IC conjunct Mercury, Venus, Mars, Pluto
Dr Sun opposite Saturn
Dr Mercury conjunct MC
Dr Venus conjunct ASC
Dr Mars conjunct NEptune
Dr Jupiter conjunct Neptune
Dr Neptune conjunct Avx

[pufferfishy]

Thanks, lucina ... I'll get back to people's charts, but wanted to post a really good description I'd come across. This was written on LL by sweetscorpion. This really puts into words what I was thinking...

About Draco to Draco synastry:

"Soul to soul recognition is such a good description of draco to draco synastry. With d-to-d synastry you would get two souls reuniting or meeting for the first time, you would get two compatible spiritual paths - which is essential especially for romantic unions. When two people have incompatible draco-draco synastry you could say that their spiritual paths are not that compatible... meaning that things in life, natural events, or the development of their souls could pull them apart. This is a very simple but plausible idea. When someone matures, they find that they really don't want to be in the relationship after all. The two people become incompatible over time, or in the case of poor draco-draco synastry, their souls mature and part ways because they no longer be spiritually compatible. Draco-draco shows how the two souls can last in a relationship beyond soul development. If they have good aspects, good conjunctions, similar formations, planets posited in the same signs, it will be easier for the relationship to survive any metamorphoses of the souls.

Harsher aspects mean, as I said, that it will be difficult for the two souls to survive together during any spiritual development for either or both persons. It's difficult because the friction is existing at an almost subconscious level. It isn't the same as natal-draco, where one person is aware of the qualities they are pulling up from the draco person. It's not of this world, on both sides. It feels fated. The little things that go wrong feel fated with poor draco-draco synastry. You both have inherent, deep inner natures that might rub each other the wrong way. Subconscious habits and patterns could bug each other. For example, having Sun square Sun in draco-draco synastry for love is an issue because it shows a clash of basic spiritual identities."

About Natal to Draco synastry:

"I feel like important draco-natal connections in synastry will really keep someone bound to the other... sort of like seeing some part of yourself you need to find in someone else. You're just so drawn to that person, because they possess the qualities you have within but can't reach yet. Almost like you just /know/ that being with them feels right... sometimes this feeling can be overwhelming but at other times, it makes you feel like you just need them so much. I think it also runs both ways, for the natal person also. As the natal person in my case, I feel like I can't abandon this person, even if we ever romantically break up - I always want to help guide them somehow, because I can just sense the inner Scorpio traits they carry. I'm the digger, and they're the subject I am excavating."

From: here

***ETA***:
However, I am not sure about the "harsh aspects" part. Say we do have a lot of squares & oppositions in draco-draco synastry. Is that "bad"? Don't those aspects themselves still indicate a strong connection? IMO the lack of aspects between two draco charts would worry me more than "harsh" aspects. Sure, they come with their share of challenges, but they are, at the end of the day *aspects* between our draconic charts, i.e. karmic ties. We'll still be compelled to relate with those people, on that unconscious soul-level.

If there are little to no aspects between them - then their "souls" or their paths of soul-evolution (whichever way you want to look at it) - don't have much to do with each other at all. The aspects provide the connection, impetus and magnetism that brings & keep them together, pulling them from their "individual" paths into a mutual journey, a shared path.

At least that's my take on it. What do you guys think?  

[lucina]

pufferfishy ,

yes exactly like that!
Esp. the Draco - Draco description is just so beautiful, but of course the other bit is very true as well.

It`s interesting to me that P and me, in the Dracos, somehow put our natal challenging aspects between 5th and 11th house ruler together, of course that means it is not an easy thing, as it makes a Grand Cross, but I still take a cross over ... emptiness any day.

Interestingly it is what creates a resonance here, because we are "plagued" by similiar natal issues, which does not make it easier of course. lol


for him natally Moon rules the 5th house and Saturn the 11th, and they are both square each other, with Moon being conjunct Sun and MC as well. And Saturn sitting on the Vertex and DESC.

for me natally Venus rules the 5th house and Pluto the 11th, and they are both square each other, with Pluto being conjunct my MC (and Venus in 1st house).


As you can see his 5th house ruler conjuncts MC - for me it is 11th house ruler conjunct MC
his 11th house ruler conjuncts DESC - my 5th house ruler is in 1st house, semisextile ASC, not conjunct though.

When I first noticed that I was pretty flabbergasted, that polar resonance over the 5th and 11th house with the difference that for me it is more about 1st house, for him it is more about 7th house, but even that is complementary.


In the tropical charts they are not aspecting each other
his Moon-Sun-MC: 27-28 Sagittarius
his Saturn-Vertex-DESC: 25-28 Virgo

my Venus: 6 Capricorn
my Pluto-MC: 5-9 Libra


But then if you turn to the Dracos


his Moon 27 Cancer
his Sun 25 Cancer
his MC 26 Cancer
his Saturn 25 Aries
his Vertex 27 Aries
his DESC 24 Aries



my Venus 25 Aries
my Pluto 28 Capricorn
my MC 24 Capricorn



for the synastric interaspects of


Sun square Venus 0°23
Sun opposite Pluto 3°20
Sun conjunct IC 0°46
Moon square Venus 1°18
Moon opposite Pluto 1°39
Moon conjunct IC 2°28
MC square Venus 0°58
MC conjunct IC 2°07
IC conjunct Pluto 1°59
Saturn conjunct Venus 0°38
Saturn square Pluto 3°35
Saturn square MC 0°31
Vertex conjunct Venus 1°10
Vertex square Pluto 1°47
Vertex square MC 2°19
DESC conjunct Venus 1°43
DESC square Pluto 4°40
DESC square MC 0°33



------------------------------

Other aspects are:


Sun trine Mars 0°
Sun trine ASC 1°
(Sun trine NEptune 4°)

Moon trine Mars 2°
Moon trine Neptune 2°
Moon trine ASC 0°

MC trine Mars 1°
MC trine NEptune 2°
MC trine ASC 0°

Venus trine Venus 1°
Uranus sextile Venus 3°
Juno sextile Venus 0°

Vesta sextile Pluto 1°
Priapus trine Pluto 0°


---- so basically this means that my stellium of Mars-Neptune-NN-ASC is harmonizing his Sun-Moon-MC and therefore at least a part of the Grand cross
you could say his Venus-Juno harmonizes my Venus (and his Uranus), but in fact he has a Venus-Juno-opposition, so it almos likes like my Venus harmonizes THIS one instead, or maybe while my Venus harmonizes his Venus-Juno-conflict, his Venus-Juno in turn likes my Venus. lol

And for my Pluto there is his Priapus-Vesta, but mostly his Priapus.




and the remaining aspects


Mercury trine Saturn 1°
Mercury conjunct Juno 1°
Mercury trine Eros 2°
- I have a Juno-Eros-aspect? oh right, I never even noticed that before, but yes Juno on 17 Pisces, Eros on 20 Cancer in tropical, and Juno on 6 Cancer and Eros on 9 Scorpio in Draco. okay, so a conjuncted trine of Saturn conjunct Eros and both trine Juno natally for me, and I suppose with his Mercury there something about communicating with him illuminates this for me?


Anyway it is too much to list

But just for the personal planets interaction (Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars and ASC, MC)


Sun square Venus 0° (25 Cancer - 25 Aries)
Sun trine Mars 0° (25 Cancer - 25 Pisces)
Sun trine ASC 1° (25 Cancer - 26 Pisces)
Sun conjunct IC 0° (25-24 Cancer)

Moon square Venus 1° (27 Cancer - 25 Aries)
Moon trine Mars 2° (27 Cancer - 25 Pisces)
Moon trine ASC 0° (27 Cancer - 26 Pisces)
Moon conjunct IC 2° /27 - 24 Cancer)

Venus trine Venus 1° (24 Leo - 25 Aries)
Venus quinkunx Mars 0° (24 Leo - 25 Pisces)
Venus quinkunx ASC 2° (24 Leo - 26 Pisces)
Venus quinkunx MC 0° (24 Leo - 24 Capricorn)
(Yes there is sort of a Yod of his Venus to my Mars on ASC and Pluto on MC, a tad wide orb for Venus-Pluto though)


Mars sextile MOon 2° (9 Aries - 7 Gemini)

DESC conjunct Venus 1° (24 - 25 Aries)
ASC quinkunx Mars 0° (24 Aries - 25 Pisces)
ASC square MC 0° (24 Aries - 24 Cap)

MC square Venus 0° (26 Cancer - 25 Aries)
MC trine Mars 1° (26 Cancer - 25 Pisces)
MC trine ASC 0° (26 Cancer - 26 Pisces)
MC conjunct IC 2° (26 - 24 Cancer)

[pufferfishy]

Jun 12, 2017 20:49:55 GMT lucina said:

pufferfishy ,

yes exactly like that!
Esp. the Draco - Draco description is just so beautiful, but of course the other bit is very true as well.

Right?? I was just staring at the description and thinking how much it resonated with me. And was about to add something corny at the end, like "isn't that romantic?". But then my Saturn took over and squelched it.


"It`s interesting to me that P and me, in the Dracos, somehow put our natal challenging aspects between 5th and 11th house ruler together, of course that means it is not an easy thing, as it makes a Grand Cross, but I still take a cross over ... emptiness any day.

Interestingly it is what creates a resonance here, because we are "plagued" by similiar natal issues, which does not make it easier of course. lol

for him natally Moon rules the 5th house and Saturn the 11th, and they are both square each other, with Moon being conjunct Sun and MC as well. And Saturn sitting on the Vertex and DESC.
for me natally Venus rules the 5th house and Pluto the 11th, and they are both square each other, with Pluto being conjunct my MC (and Venus in 1st house). "

Damn!! That resonance is so -- muy sympatico. I think the trines you listed carry more weight than we give 'em credit for. It's really interesting to see the whole picture, because - as in your example, a lot of blanks are filled and you have an "aha" moment. 
That yod with his Venus & your Mars-Pluto..*wow*..  

[lucina]

pufferfishy ,

well my Saturn was silent this time, but yes such a poetic and romantic description.

The resonance really made me gape, when I first realized that it was there. lol
I am not sure that Yod really counts, because the orbs are so wide, between the planets, but it surely is interesting


my Mars 25 Pisces
my ASC 26 Pisces

my Pluto 28 Capricorn
my MC 24 Capricorn

his Venus 24 Leo


and my Uranus is on 21 Aquarius
and his Juno on 26 Aquarius



Also I never really looked at it like that before, but found it was an interesting picture just taking the signs of the personal planets and angles into account

his first


his Sun: Cancer
his Moon: Cancer
his Mercury: Cancer
his Venus: Leo
his Mars: Aries
his ASC: Libra
his MC: Cancer


my Sun: Aries
my Moon: Gemini
my MErcury: Aries
my Venus: Aries
my Mars: Pisces
my ASC: Pisces
my MC: Capricorn

[pufferfishy]

Wow, I dunno where to pick things up with this thread. I wanna post my own draconic/natal synastries, but..*ahem*.
I'll post some aspects & degrees -- so you guys can see the themes.